Re: Re: Re: Re: Different Question About CC vs. BBb


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Posted by Klaus on March 10, 2003 at 02:23:42:

In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Different Question About CC vs. BBb posted by Rick Denney on March 10, 2003 at 00:17:48:

Avoiding beats with in a section is fully OK, if the final result implies all of the ensemble being in tune.

Avoiding beats within a section just to having them occur between sections is nonsense. (As is tuning to one certain note. I always feel free to adjust my main tuning slide basic position, so that I thereby can support my strive to play in tune. A strive based on a statistical handling of whatever instrument I play).

Choosing an instrument adhering to the out of tune tendencies of a given band section is nothing but promoting a common musical lie.

If I have spoken of sending players home until they could play in tune, then I have been expressing my self badly. However I, maybe in contrast to many community band members, find, that the main work is to be done between weekly rehearsals, not during them. Likewise I of course always let my intonation suggestions follow by precise fingering suggestions (and by precise suggestions of slide pulls/throws in 3 valve instruments). But then advises only have any value, if they are followed in the spirit in which they are given.

You are grossly misinterpreting me, if you think, that I am promoting a choice of a CC tuba to be done by the original poster. In another thread I have provided my available knowledge of Schneider tubas/brasses. To this very second I am totally unaware of the pitch of the Schneider tuba in question. Myself I have these odd ears, which only allow me to play tubas and trombones in BBb/Bb or Eb, whereas I have no problems with playing my several single horns in F. I even have been able to adapt to my 5 instruments in descant and bass G, whereas my flugelhorn and Kaiserbariton in C pose severe problems to me. This even if I have 12 recorders plus several keyboards and plucked strings pitched in C, which do not pose problems to my ears. It is all a matter of upbringing.

As for which tuning standard to apply to:

In practising pitch on long notes I strictly adhere to equal temperament in 440. If I can play stable on some cents above and some cents below the needle center plus right on, then I am confident, that I can meet the challenges imposed on me.

As told of in an older posting I consider equal temperament a fiction, when it comes to real life performances in whatever genre. Older triad type music calls for pure fifths and a knowledgeable handling of thirds: flattish in tonica type chords, sharpish in dominant type chords. But thirds in the bass line almost, if not exclusively, should be played flattish.

The harmonic transformations introduced by Wagner and lying behind modern tonal jazz could not have been invented without the ideology of the equal temperament. But whenever good musicians perform such music, they forget everything about equal temperament and play in tune, which basically is a derivative of Pythagorean ideas. This of course introduces compromises in the truth of linear intervals, but then we approach the topic of ensemble styles and traditions. Some ensembles are better than others. The better ones all have or have had coaching by a major musical personality.

I too have experienced pro players adapting to amateur standards just to get along socially. However the pros achieving results in their work with amateurs are those, who do not compromise their own standards. Even this approach involves very diverse strategies. My own strategy was to play music much easier, than the involved ensembles thought themselves able to play.

However my retirement has made me much more merciless. My arrangements and compositions now mostly direct players with a thorough understanding of music. And this is no unrealistic approach.

No amateur alto saxist will make himself/herself any headway through the big band area, if he/she stops playing when confronted with 4 or 5 sharps. If a brass band alto horn player takes down her horn through a G major concert passage, it is met with a smile (I am not a sexist, I am just referring to an actual episode).

Do I have a social element in my approach to ensemble playing? I have to admit: Yes!

I accept playing together with anybody doing his/hers best based on an honest effort!

While in college one of my fellow students once exclaimed during a duet rehearsal: "You are so wonderful to play together with, Klaus! You can anticipate my bad fingerings and my odd rhythms."

Today I have de-corrupted myself. She nurtured her corruption and got a headmaster position.

Klaus


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