Posted by Jay Bertolet on November 18, 2002 at 12:21:20:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Cerveney Eb posted by Sven Bring on November 18, 2002 at 10:41:02:
Rick made some really nice points. What I was trying to say with my mouthpiece comment was really more of a mouthpiece selection philosophy on my part. Just like Rick said, each tuba design has its strengths and weaknesses. I think where most players go wrong is in trying to find ways to make a certain kind of instrument sound in a way other than what it was intended to sound like. For example, I have heard of many players using an F tuba and plugging in a huge mouthpiece to get a big sound. Why? The horn wasn't designed for that. More than likely, by using a larger mouthpiece than was intended, you will suffer a multitude of intonation and centering issues. In the end, the result won't be as satisfying as just picking up a bigger horn to make that big sound. That's why I always think in terms of "characteristic sound".
Unless you're buying a bass tuba that is really large, you shouldn't expect it to feel, sound, or respond like a contrabass tuba. Is it a good thing if you can make such a tuba sound like something it is not? I don't think so. It might be a nice party trick but why work that hard? Just use the equipment that makes you sound exactly like you want to sound while causing you to work the least amount to get that sound. That way, all the extra energy and effort can be put into making music.
To answer your question, a characteristic mouthpiece in this case would be one that isn't overly large or deep. I think the Germanic F tuba syndrome can cause players problems on two fronts. First, the player feels how hard it is to get these notes to center properly and to sound the same as all the other notes on the horn. So, the player goes to a bigger mouthpiece to compensate, thinking that the problem may be stuffiness. Of course, at least for me, this doesn't work because the problem is not at the mouthpiece. Secondly, the players here in the US are trained on contrabass tubas for the most part. They pick up a bass tuba and they automatically expect it to respond in exactly the same way as what they've been playing. Wrong again.
Let's take the example of C below the staff on an Eb tuba. I have a couple of Eb tubas, one Willson and one Cerveny. They are design opposites and create completely different sounds. On the Willson, this range is no problem at all because the overall design is very much like a contrabass tuba design. I play almost exactly the way I play on my contrabass tubas and everything comes out just great. Conversely, the Cerveny Eb is designed like the typical Germanic style F tuba. In fact, the model 641 is identical to the similar F Cerveny makes except that the tuning slide has been lengthened and converted to a side-pull configuration to lower the instrument a whole step. Otherwise, the Eb and F are identical. The 641 has all the same problems as any Germanic style F in the range just below the staff. With that horn, I cannot approach the low range in the same way as I normally do. It is a completely different feel. Further, the "good" sound isn't anything like a good low C on a CC tuba. They are just plain different sounds. Once I stopped trying to overpower that range and let the horn play in that range with its characteristic sound, it became a whole lot easier to manage. Part and parcel with that process was my using smaller mouthpieces which will not produce as big a sound as I'm used to. Amazingly, in addition to clearing up the low range, the intonation on the horn improved a lot.
I would encourage you to experiment with some smaller mouthpieces with your bass tuba. Make sure that the sound you're going for is not identical to the sound you would expect from a contrabass tuba. I'm sure you know this already but I state it anyway just in case you don't. As far as specific mouthpieces to try, the ones I use are from a variety of manufacturers. Currently, on my Cerveny, I'm using a Doug Elliott mouthpiece that is similar to the old PT-8S. Before that I was using a PT-8S. I also like the Laskey 30C. These are all relatively shallow mouthpieces. I would just try and find a rim diameter that works for you and then start trying cups and shanks of various sizes to see if you can hit on a combination that feels good and makes the sound you want.
Sorry for the overly long post!
My opinion for what it's worth...