Posted by Matt G on October 02, 2001 at 14:49:53:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Yamaha sousaphones posted by Rob P-M on October 02, 2001 at 11:43:42:
I agree! The yamaha's odds are fairly bad. The only thing going for the other 14 was that they were nearly identical, this one was very good, at least to me. Based on that, if you have to equip 17 players, as I did, and your school has a direct deal with Yamaha, as ours did, then it isn't so bad. Please note: I did not have any tuba ed/perf majors in my section so consistency from horn to horn both intonation and soundwise is a good thing. Not that the players were weak, but they weren't going to sit down with a sousaphone with a tuner and do extensive warm-ups and etude studies to evaluate the tendencies of their instrument. I had to get everyone to a common ground and hope for the best. These horns in this number (17) with players playing their parts to 90-95% accuracy at close to the correct dynamic are almost as good as anything else. If I were dealing with 4-5 players I would opt for a Conn 20k. On the other hand I would run across other tuba section in college land that had 30+ players, all on Conn's, and they didn't have the same output as us. But that boils down to basics, sound concepts, and relates back to the consitency that the Yamaha's had. When we played together as a section we were all pretty much within 5cents of the main pitch, and when it comes to an outdoor performance medium, that isn't too bad. Most high schools and colleges don't get a direct deal with yamaha, so they have to go out on bid. Then the yamaha's are about the same as the Conn's and I think the Kings are a little less. I would personally take the Conn all day over the Yamaha, but I didn't get to make that decision. Ironically the college I went to now marches about 10 players, and they won't be getting 3-4 new souzies like I was each year (both people and instruments). I would recommend the King based on the quality of their upright basses, especially the new 2341, but I marched King Souzies in high school (1990's vintage). I personally didn't like them as the seemed to "back up" much easier than the uprights (which my school used). I don't know why they were stuffy but I know it wasn't due to obstruction in the horn. The yamaha's can take a much larger airsteam to me, but they aren't efficient. And while the King did back up on me, there was a recording of where they were taping one of the halftime shows and I managed to overload the camcorder mike with a King! The main complaint about the 20K is the pitch, but that can be easily solved by reworking the first valve tuning to the top of the branch instead of the bottom, then you can fix just about everything. If you cut it down about 1" then the C and B natural in the staff can be tuned. This leaves the open D and Db (2nd) and these are usually lippable and/or the alternate fingerings aren't too bad. On the other hand the King is almost spot on in tune and are much friendlier in an indoor type environment. Also, even though I have never recorded myself on souzie, the King has a sound, similar to the Conn 2J/3J, that seem like it would get on tape very well. Unfortunately, this isn't a big factor in most sousaphone shopping.
Basically this is how I rate it:
Buying for myself: Conn 20K
Buying for 5-10 GOOD players: Conn 20K
Buying for 10-?? so-so players: King/Conn .689 bore incarnation or the Yamaha
Sidenote:
When out at Dismal, I mean Disney, we used Yamaha's with the Christmas Brass. While I would have prefered the Conn for dropping octaves in certain places, the Yamaha's didn't dissapoint. And now that all of those warm fuzzies are coming back, I think that I picked out the second and third best (I retained the best one!) for the group. Again, consistency and blend, plus accesability were key's in the choice of the horn. (The only horn that Disney provided for us in the Collegiate groups was the Fiberglass Souzie, a yamaha, that was quite good.)