Posted by Kenneth Sloan on September 09, 2002 at 20:40:55:
In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why should we have to defend teachers? posted by Rick Denney on September 09, 2002 at 10:40:37:
I wouldn't be too sure that the MIT Physics professor would, in fact, actually produce a bridge that did the job. I have the advantage of actually having worked with MIT professors (wait...I *was* an MIT professor!).
Give that job to 5 MIT Physics professors, and you are likely to get 1 actual bridge that works, 3 designs that can't be built because it would take 100 MIT grad students to construct, and 1 paper on why bridges are obsolete and should be replaced by ion transport.
Yes, Rick, I *would* hire you to build the bridge. Not becasue you know how to do it, but because you have the training and the professional ethics to deliver a practical solution, even if you have to hire someone else (say, that MIT Physics professor) to handle the parts that you are a bit rusty on.
Engineers are certified at least as much for their mindset as they are for their knowledge. After all, the knowledge has a half-life of about 8 years.
You go on to describe the ways that certification can go wrong. I agree. For example, I'm a strong opponent of "certification" of college-level Computer Science departments.
For me, the key question is: is there specialized training (either knowledge or mindset) which is required to do the job? I think that both bridge building (and traffic engineering) and high school teaching have that requirement. Give me a random MIT Physics professor and I would not hire him to either teach high school physics (no, not even AP Physics) nor to build a bridge - UNLESS - he turned out to be clever enough to first prepare himself with that extra training.
Remember - that's the proposition that set me off in the first place - that someone with a clear record of high level achievement (examples: physics professor or solo performer) could simply walk into a high school teaching job without bothering to demonstrate competence as a *high school teacher*.
Every profession has "hoops" that must be jumped through. Sometimes (perhaps your latest certification program is an example) these hoops are ill-considered. But, most of the time they serve useful purposes. Those who have not jumped through the hoops (and those who have!) sneer at the hoops at their own peril.
And, perhaps sadly, if I'm on the elected lay Board of Supervisors for my town and have to vote on who to hire to do the signal timing, I'll probably go with the P.T.O.E. When *he* screws up, my D&O insurance coverage will protect me. If I hire you (or worse, your assistant, who isn't a P.E. but has been doing your grunt work or ages) and *you* screw up, then I may find myself on the hook.
Sometimes, certification is really all about "who can I sue".
To make this all TubeNet relevant...my local high school band director likes what I did in untwisting the pretzle-like sousaphones and has essentially said "they didn't teach me anything about tubas...can I convince you to do 1-a-week sectionals? He's certified, and still responsible for the results. I'm not...so I get paid with a smile and a handshake. Wish me luck.