Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Discriminated BBb and Eb ???


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Posted by Frederick J. Young on June 17, 2002 at 10:25:06:

In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Discriminated BBb and Eb ??? posted by Scott Norberg on June 17, 2002 at 09:11:07:

The slides on the Willson or any other noncompensating instrument are not the correct length to make the various combinations of valves be in tune without making slide pull/pushes or gross lip alterations. I only assert that the overall uncorrected error for compensating tubas is much less than it is for uncompensated tubas. The correct experiment would be to have a purely mechanical blower play both tubas and measure the intonation of both. It is very tricky to make measurements with real players because they make almost super human efforts to play in tune on sustained notes.

With regards to four valve compensating instruments, combinations like 23 and 12 are still out of tune if each valve alone is in tune. All the compensating instruments accomplish is to make 14, 24 and 34 in tune (assuming the fourth valve alone is in tune). In other words it makes an Eb tuba into a somewhat weak three valve BBb tuba with all the intonation difficulties associated with 234, 134 and 1234 combinations.

With my complete double tuba all 11 of the valve slides are the correct length and tunable. All pitches are within plus or minus 2 cents of the well tempered scale without any gross lip adjustments.

The presence of the flat semitone or whole tone fifth valves on the Willson verifies my contentions. It is necessary to use it with the fourth valve in order to get low A or Ab in tune on the Eb tuba. It is just a small step in the direction of good intonation. One might think that the presence of 5 rather than 4 valves gives so many more valve combinations that some are sure to be in tune. Unfortunately, it simply does not work that way.

As to the length of valve slides working only in theory, it was a theory that the old US companies like Conn, King, Martin and York mastered and verified experimentally almost 100 years ago. I think you are being confused by the variablility of tubists. Most find it hard to play at a steady amplitude and pitch and for that reason the tuner manufacturers supply slow response or averaging switches. With practice in front of a sound level meter and a tuner one can overcome these difficulties. Only then can meaningfull intonation measurements be made. Robert Young published papers where he measured many players over and over again and used statistical analyses to determine their intonation.

By the way if you want to hear really bad intonation, listen to a Nischl Eb tuba!


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